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28. Interview #2 Ego, Intention & Consciousness: Miniseries Part 3 of 3

[00:00:00] Hugh Sifu: Before we get started guys, last time you'll ever hear the birds in the background because this interview was recorded in the place I miss so much, Byron Bay. Excuse the noise in the background of the birds and animals. I no longer have to deal with the birds that exist in Australia. Anyways, enjoy, guys.


[00:00:30] Hugh: All right, guys. Welcome back to Thoughts of a Random Citizen. I'm your host as always, Hugh Sifu. Today finally is the third and final part of the three-part miniseries that I've been releasing. It's an interview with the one and- well, not one and only Davide, considering I know so many Davides, but the master of meditation is what I call him. It's a really good interview, guys. He is Italian, so keep that in mind, but pretty informational. I do just want to remind everybody that the entire reason for this podcast is specifically for you guys.

I don't advertise it. I don't promote it. I don't have social media, so it's not for me. I don't even use my real name, if you don't know, which I've already expressed earlier in an episode, my name isn't Hugh Sifu. I don't really do it for me. It's really just to gain perspective for others. Now I'm not sitting up here and chirping on a little microphone to make me feel better. It's really just if you have nothing to do and you're sitting and working all day or driving home, something for you to listen to. Keep that in mind, hope that you guys enjoy the things that I have been releasing.

More importantly, I hope you guys enjoy this episode, so without further ado, I'll kick it off. All right. You ready for this? Get it off. All right, guys. Welcome to Thoughts of a Random Citizen. I'm here with Davide. He is a meditation master is what I'll call him [chuckles] as he rolls his eyes and laughs. First off, I would like to thank you for this excellent 4 Pines Freshy, extra refreshing ale. I freaking love 4 Pine, so I couldn't be happier that you brought this beer of all beers. Shout out to them, but welcome man. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:02:35] Davide Rosa: Thank you, Tim. I thank you to being interested in this hard issue that is consciousness, because everybody here talk about it, but what is it?

[00:02:50] Hugh: Exactly, and it's always funny to hear people's perspectives on consciousness, because it is such a vast and broad issue that you hear somebody in passing talk about it and you can, not to be judgmental, but understand the people who might have a more in depth grasp of consciousness, as opposed to the people who are just being introduced to it.

[00:03:13] Davide: Exactly, because consciousness is not know stuff to judge the others, but to understand the world around us, the rules around us, and I feel peaceful, that one is the final goal of consciousness and also religious or philosophy.

[00:03:32] Hugh: Exactly. We will be brushing all of those things. I'm quite excited for that. Before we get kicked off, give us a little bit of background on your journey, on how you came to your current understanding of consciousness. Not only that, but I know that you are into Taoism at the moment. Just give us a background into where you've led up to today.

[00:03:55] Davide: I began to be inside the consciousness around almost 10 years ago. A bit less than 10 years ago, happened by random circumstance because me, I was looking for a course for- be able to speak more properly, to be more, I don't know, seducing for the people that listen to me, and I pop up in this center, is a high communication center is the name and in this center wasn't really important the voice or how you move your body.

But I didn't get it in the first moment. This place was more about realize our feelings, what we are feeling, why we are reacting some situation differently, feeling-wise always. Thanks to these guys, that they're living in Verona, in my home city, they gave me these tools, all the tools to get my experience and for that to grow up in this world, in the consciousness.

[00:05:15] Hugh: Cool. So you started your journey in Italy then?

[00:05:18] Davide: Yes.

[00:05:19] Hugh: Okay. For those of you who might not catch the accent, Davide is from Italy.


[00:05:24] Davide: Yes. Don't tell to anybody.

[00:05:27] Hugh: Right. I would never guess. Where at in Italy specifically?

[00:05:31] Davide: Excuse me?

[00:05:32] Hugh: Where at are you from in Italy?

[00:05:34] Davide: I'm from North Italy. My main city is Verona, but I'm living in Valpolicella, famous for wine, oil, the lake and a fun fact, Verona is famous for Romeo and Juliet, because of Shakespeare, in his novel Verona was the city.

[00:05:58] Hugh: Wow. I should probably know that, but I do not. Is that consciousness journey something that's prevalent in that area that you're from, or is it just you happen to have some friends?

[00:06:10] Davide: No, it's the opposite. Veneto, it's well known to be pretty- not closed, but not really open for different minds, we can say.

[00:06:27] Hugh: I mean, because you guys are pretty like Catholic oriented in Italy in general, right?

[00:06:31] Davide: Yes, in all the Italy we are pretty Catholic, but Veneto is not about religious, but it's more unfortunately I should say that it's pretty racist also.

[00:06:46] Hugh: Really?

[00:06:46] Davide: Yes. More than other place, but this one is the average. Me, I met really nice people there. Also about my background. My parents are not from there, it's from another regions.

[00:07:04] Hugh: In Italy?

[00:07:04] Davide: Yes.

[00:07:05] Hugh: That's a lesson for everyone out there, that not just Americans are racist. Australians are definitely racist. Italians are definitely racist. Our friends, everyone's racist, people. It's not a good thing. We shouldn't aspire to that, but let's just try to get over it together. But anyways, so we were talking the other day and one of the first things I wanted to lead off to, especially being what we call a backpacker in Australia, somebody on a working holiday visa, student visas as well fall into that category.

A lot of people looking in to find their consciousness, if you will, take the journey of, I guess drugs, using drugs to find that consciousness, having it open their ability to- whether it be mushrooms or acid to feel one with nature, I guess if you will. Do you think that long term, I know that you've used a few too, you went to a shaman and- well, you didn't actually on that specific experience and we'll go into that later, but I know that it's a very, very beneficial tool, especially if you're conscious with it to explore that. But do you think long term that you necessarily need drugs to find consciousness, or do you even think you need it in the first place?

[00:08:27] Davide: It's not a easy question. My opinion that the life is done by steps. For that, how in our previous year we are used to do something else it's possible that this stuff will not be used for my future. But for the moment I found some benefits. I don't say it's the way, but maybe it's part of the way.

[00:08:54] Hugh: Are you aware if it's something that like- or is it gurus or monks? Do they do anything in regards to that? I know that they have teas or native Americans used to have pipes and stuff that they'd smoke. We were talking about the mezcal. Was that me and you?

[00:09:13] Davide: Oh yes. What do you want to know about?

[00:09:16] Hugh: Just pretty much if these cultures around the world that are known for wisdom.

[00:09:22] Davide: It's very interesting about anthropology way wise, that all the cultures in the world had create a way to healing of consciousness, different way. For example, in the South America, Mexico has a bit of Native American and they used to drink or introduce inself some substance to reach the consciousness. Can be the mezcal for the Mexican shamans. In South America is the most well known as ayahuasca.

[00:10:01] Hugh: Yes, ayahuasca. Go into more detail of-- Because I know you were talking to me about that the other day, and it was quite intriguing about the intensity of it, and I guess, the benefits. I'm not really super familiar with the drug. I know you brought it to my attention the first time the other day, but yes.

[00:10:20] Davide: Neither I, before come to Australia. [chuckles]

[00:10:22] Hugh: Oh, really?

[00:10:23] Davide: Yes. Mostly, I'd like to focus on ayahuasca, because I know more information about it than mezcaline. Ayahuasca is something to drink from plants. Not only one, because one plant is to extract the DMT. DMT is a molecule that is everywhere, in all the living beings. Also we produce DMT every night when we sleep.

[00:10:58] Hugh: I knew that one.

[00:10:59] Davide: Yes, and also when we're born, and we are dying.

[00:11:05] Hugh: Oh, yes. Okay, I'm familiar with that as well. That plan, didn't you say something about how there's inhibitors that allow it, and then just go into more detail-- Because I can't really remember what you were saying.

[00:11:20] Davide: Yes, coming back to the ayahuasca, there is not only DMT inside, because only assuming DMT, the journey will be shorter, because in our brain, we have an enzyme that its task is neutralize the DMT. For diet, he- shamans, they got anothe0 kind of plant that neutralize the enzyme that neutralize the DMT. For that, usually a journey by ayahuasca lasts at least eight hours.

[00:11:59] Hugh: Geez, it's so long.

[00:12:01] Davide: Yes. For the people in that journey is not only eight hours, it's much more.

[00:12:09] Hugh: Yes, you were telling me that sometimes you go for years. It's something that I couldn't just one day want to do it, because it's pretty full. I could, I guess, but it's pretty full-on, and being somebody who is involved around consciousness, I know you're pretty involved in Taoism and meditate all the time, which we'll get into in a sec, but what essentially preparation have you done to even try this, to have that moment, or that eight hour journey?

[00:12:40] Davide: When I got [found out] that exist, stuff, was more than one year ago, about DMT, ayahuasca, all that stuff. I was really curious, because with my previous background, I was interested to explore myself. After taking information around about people they did it or anyway, I was also a bit discouraged, because it's something that go beyond our—Not conception, but our ego. Because a lot of people talk about ego like something wrong, something bad, but in reality, our ego protect us from what happening outside.

[00:13:36] Hugh: Just go into a little bit of detail about that, because that's--

[00:13:39] Davide: About ego?

[00:13:39] Hugh: Yes.

[00:13:41] Davide: Absolutely. I know why people can misunderstand the ego. Because unfortunately, more societies has sober structures.

[00:13:53] Hugh: Sorry, have what?

[00:13:54] Davide: Sober structure means it's not easy like in a tribal society that there is the hunter, there is the cooker, there is rules. In a society like that, there is a lot of rules, a lot of stuff that we must know that in simpler society doesn't exist. Means simpler societies more surviving, means food, sex for procreation, that's it for that. Because we have animal brain, obviously a bit different, but the basic is from the same of all the animals.

[00:14:45] Hugh: In regards, how does that relate to the ego? What were you saying about that?

[00:14:49] Davide: Oh, yes. For that, the ego, some people, it's used to, for example, in the family, in the society, has a behavior, repeating that behavior. There you go, record, not the ego itself, but the brain record that behavior like a normal. It doesn't matter if a crazy family, or is a negatory family, victim family, or the matrix of the family doesn't fit in the society, doesn't matter. The brain record and the ego works in that way.

For that, we can understand that as we summon- lives an emotional life, break the unbalance, that one will become it's balanced life. For that, the ego will work in that way. Also, if in a lot of ways will later, when maybe someone want to go out from the family, or want to find independence, will find the ego protect us from something that maybe doesn't exist, feeling-wise.

[00:16:03] Hugh: Yes, okay. I think I'm following you, and I'm pretty sure you dove into this the other day as well. For those of you who haven't picked up, we had a quite in depth conversation, which was the reason I wanted to ask Davide to come on to this podcast, because it was an excellent conversation. Could you give us an example, to just the people who weren't there for that other conversation, to understand what specifically you mean for that protection, and that balance you were referring to about that ego?

[00:16:35] Davide: Yes. For example, I can do an example for my old friend, it’s funny. I was in his house, I was used to go after school to his house to eat and to play some video games, and a lot of-- Not a lot of time, but almost every time, my friend did something that got upset the mother. The mother was pretty- what we can say, a traditional Italian mother. [chuckles] For that, I could watch the show. The show was more or less every time the same. The mother run after my friend with a-- Not a shoe but that one for the house.

[00:17:26] Hugh: A broom, yes.

[00:17:26] Davide: Yes, exactly, and tried to hit him. My friend was screaming, stuff like that. For me, it was, "Okay, another family, another rules." It can be also fun from outside to see this stuff in the first moment, when I was there. If we analyze their feelings, what I'll present is a scenario. Scenario is that also your closest person in your life create some fear in yourself, because keep following you with something to hit you, only because you didn't get something, or you did it in a, sorry the term, wrong way.

If for that, if you think if this behavior, it is stuff that keeps repeating, it's life. Means how you can grow up in a way that everything must be scared. Also in your daily life, because we don't talk about a trauma. Trauma is something that really get upset once, but finish. It's something that get to repeat, repeat, repeat, until that one is normality. For that, this person will be able to live in society with this kind of mind. For that, the ego get deeper, get like a big shield, shell for protecting, because everything is fear, because also your mother is something that you must be careful.

[00:19:07] Hugh: Well, that's what we were talking about as well, is the fact that your perception is 100% a reflection on your reality, in how you're brought up. Whether you have that fear reflects beyond. Can you go into a bit about Eastern and Western religions, and the differences in how it relates to Taoism and Christianity or whatever and beyond?

[00:19:33] Davide: Yes, absolutely. How South America, Mexico, realize different kinds of philosophy to heal. Western society, for that we talk about Europe and all the countries from there, and Eastern, more or less we talk about China, Thailand, Vietnam, all the countries surround. Also there, they develop a different way to heal or to live in a society. In Western society, it's well known that Christianity in most of the country is the main religion. For that, the philosophy, how the reflection, the reality. In Eastern is more- not religious but more philosophy, can be Taoism first after Buddhism.

[00:20:31] Hugh: Really quick just to stop you right there. You said that it is less of a religion and more of a philosophy. What do you mean by that?

[00:20:39] Davide: Oh, yes. Means the purpose is the same. If you read the Bible, if you listen, Taoism, Buddhism, or other stuff, the purpose is always not to get rules, but a way to live more peaceful, more compassionate, help the others, stuff like that. The difference is approaching, because if someone is inside the West society for that one is more rigid than the Eastern.

[00:21:15] Hugh: Yes, absolutely. Meaning when you have churches in organized religion, they go about teaching you in a way that is, instead of, I guess, this might not be the right way to put it but instead of it being inclusive, it's--

[00:21:34] Davide: Yes. After I say different because it's not the religion itself, but is the institution. Obviously, all these, what they say, the Jesus, or the religious if you read, it's something that you can get a lot, but institution, what does it mean institution? It's a construction with rules, with dogmas, with not a lot of way not practice in the daily life or means an example. You must do so, or you will go to hell.

[00:22:13] Hugh: Yes. They don't go into much detail about why and what is hell. In meaning, it's the same thing in Eastern practice, they essentially try to jump from one point to the next without saying that it's because of your own self that is causing this. The hell that they're describing, in my opinion, is the same as the Eastern's view of karma. It's that whole aspect of the fact that when you do this, certain connotations happen and it brings into that hellish state, which would be that bad karmic state. I don't know if I'm right on that. What do you think?

[00:22:58] Davide: I don't know exact means. I got my meanings of karma can be different from how they mean in Eastern society karma, or how the people here talk about karma because usually hear people say that, "If you do this one, is a bad karma," or, "If you do this one, is a good karma." The karma doesn't work like that. Means it's not something that you must be careful in the moment you do something. The karma has already begun. It's begun maybe before that we were born. The karma is more a reflection of our actions, our feelings about actions.

For that an example is someone do something, help the others because if they don't do it, feel guilty, will not have good karma because the intention, the feelings, is fear. For that they will answer about karma would be the reflection about it, the intention. Also, if the intention is not clear for most of the time, the person that do something without consciousness or love-consciousness is not in the same level. Suffering is more something about feelings, do something not because it's easy that stuff, is because won't help or it's something that is forced to do it.

[00:24:30] Hugh: You're saying that karma is not created if the intentions are incorrect?

[00:24:38] Davide: Absolutely. For what you say before the reflection, what happen is someone do something by fear or mostly fear than curiosity, that is our balance in our life, in the old the animal brain. If someone do something by fear, we call a prophecy that get real. Say if someone said, "If I climb a tree, I will fall, I will fall, I will fall." If this guy will climb the tree, probably will fall. Why? This person is not able to climb a tree or because his intention for that is fear?

[00:25:23] Hugh: So it's the intention?

[00:25:24] Davide: Yes, exactly.

[00:25:25] Hugh: Karma is essentially intention. Is that what you're saying?

[00:25:30] Davide: Absolutely, 100%.

[00:25:31] Hugh: If karma is intention for that example of the guy climbing the tree, how would that- because you just said earlier that karma is there before you're born. How does that apply in that specific example of- or maybe that's drawing a specific and the wrong conclusion but I guess how does it make sense to say that karma exists before you're born?

[00:25:57] Davide: I can say it about, is like a karma family because in my previous background about conscious they also let me know that everything's a matrix, means kind of behavior from one of the parents. Usually, these rules is in a fatherhood society. What does it mean? The father is more do stuff and the mother is more feel. The firstborn, when he retains the father behavior, in the basic. The second one, the mother, the third one, both of them, and like that, for the others. Obviously, is not only someone that would not become the copy of the parent because after the society that this person is leaving, and their own experience. Always the experience, it's linked about the matrix of the parent.

[00:27:02] Hugh: That goes back to that example of running around with the broom, is that karma, or that intention is instilled upon the kids and that's how they then from that intention that is instilled to them via their parents, they then have maybe that fear of climbing that tree and then karma from that intention.

[00:27:22] Davide: A lot of stuff. Obviously, it's not a guilt of the parents, because the parents inherits the matrix from their own parent. For that, I'm talking about more about this kind of karma, or we want to call in a different.

[00:27:40] Hugh: How many [beep] karmas are there?


[00:27:45] Davide: I guess there is never an end, because society is moving faster and faster, rules. For that all the people is, in a kind of way unique. For that everybody has a unique karma. For that, I don't want to say that there is a way, because it's important to find their own way, what fit for us, for each of us.

[00:28:15] Hugh: I feel like your understanding of karma is vastly deeper than mine. In regards to finding that uniqueness within each other, I briefly when trying to expand into- after I read the Bible and wanted to figure out what other religions were about and started meditating and stuff, I really found that there was an ability to focus on something. If you had that consciousness and you had the ability to negate all of everyday vices, and there's countless vices that exist, whether it be alcohol, social media.

Anything can be a vice, if too much of a good thing is a bad thing. If you could negate that and really focus on consciousness in whatever it was that your intention was, essentially, I really found that you were able to create your own realities. Do you find that to be accurate? I guess how many times a day do you meditate and then do you find that that creates an ability to walk your own path easier?

[00:29:36] Davide: I want to begin to say that something that, in our society one of the main social rules is morality, for that morality bring to judgement.

[00:29:53] Hugh: Sorry, can you go into that really quickly? Morality brings to judgment.

[00:29:58] Davide: Yes, absolutely. I’ll connect it. For that also talk about how you say vices, I also say vices is something bad, consider it bad or good, but the reality is not only good or bad, means apparently yes. I want a more focus about that morality for that- say something that is good, like be pure, a bad like something vice can be tricky, can really tricky because if somebody said good or bad doesn't go deeper about, "Why so many people do something like that, also if they know it's wrong?"

Here we can open a big window and say that the consciousness is not to understand if something good or bad, but is to understand why. Means why I'm smoking a cigarette? Why I'm drinking? Why I'm sex without stopping a second, or all the other example that our society considers-- [crosstalk] Yes, exactly, because I was talking before this podcast with a guy about nicotine, about a vaper that this guy kept asking me my vape to get some puff. Nothing wrong, it's only some puff. What we can understand from this stuff that addiction for that means systematically someone needs nicotine.

For that means that nicotine give us something that we need in this moment that we can't reproduce that feeling, because if someone is calm-- I mean usually someone smoke is for anxious, for feel lighter or other stuff for you only to use. What does it mean if someone is get addiction? Means the mind and the body said, "I need that substance because you, person, you can't reach that state of mind." I talk about addiction, not about if someone get sometimes some puff or drink sometimes.

[00:32:15] Hugh: Yes, like a consistent addiction?

[00:32:16] Davide: Yes, for that come back to the morality, morality is negatory, because say if you do this one is good, if you do this one is bad. If someone go deeper, understand that must follow these feelings and understand to be free, because someone realized really why it's smoking, drinking, compulsory, maybe we'll see. "I'm doing this one? I'm really feel happy," means oh, I can create that stuff for myself.

[00:32:50] Hugh: Yes. Have you ever read The Power of Now?

[00:32:53] Davide: I heard about this, Eckhart Tolle?

[00:32:56] Hugh: Yes, he goes into that. I think which is what you're saying is that sometimes, for this example specifically, you use that vice to discover and sit and figure out what is actually wrong, what is in your inner self, what you're actually telling yourself? While vices are not always a great thing, typically a bad thing, or I guess maybe you shouldn't say that. That was which is what you just said, but it allows you to, when sitting on it, when meditating and thinking and focusing on, "Why do I drink all the time?" or, "Why do I smoke all the time?" or, "Why do I have sex all the time?" It allows you to explore that feeling and look beyond to figure out the cause of it, the root cause.

[00:33:47] Davide: You got a good point, really nice point about it, because you really-- I listen Taoism this stuff is because in our weakest point, there is the key. The key about ourselves because it's easy said, "I like this one, I do it. I don't like, I don't do it," because when we like to do usually something that we are use in our comfort zone to do for that in our precise life. What happened is something that we are not feeling-wise ready to do, we get upset a bit more.

For that, it's paradox, but face the fears, not like, "I must do it," but like, allow that also that faults, that stuff that get annoying come- not inside, but be observers. Only observe them is the way to- not heal, but healing or reduce that annoying area of our reality, for that to get more peaceful, more- less angry about some facts.

[00:35:13] Hugh: Yes, do you find that-- I completely agree with everything that you're saying by the way, and you're making some excellent points. Do you find that there's a difference between people recognizing, "Oh, I have a drinking problem," and then the practice of going in, because it really-- I remember when I started to explore this, I started to feel I guess that level of consciousness, and it almost scared me I guess you'd say, because of that-- I don't want to say power, but I guess the ability to really reflect on yourself. Once you're able to get to that point where you can step back and see the way in which you're doing things, it freaks you out a bit.

I guess, is there any advice you can give people on implementing that practice in everyday life, because a lot of people are going to listen to this and be like, "Oh yes. You made some really good points," and take it home. Be like, "Yes." I mean I still am going to drink a fucking beer- which, we're drinking beer right now, don't-- This isn't against anything, but it's that issue of creating that practice, that meditation, that understanding and consciousness and reflection on oneself.

[00:36:34] Davide: Yes, absolutely. I must separate the two kind of people- there is not only two kind of people, but two main kind of people. The people that are really unbalanced, they live in a life confused for that also the stuff that for us is normal, for them is not. Fear's really high for that, for these people the self-help is harder because it's the ready got that something doesn't work is already a beginning but a lot of people leave them alive without pondering if something doesn't work. If you can say for its life.